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After all, why is the tree right in the middle of the garden? Why does God allow Satan to be there? What chance does a free human will have against the seducing power of the devil himself? We use the story to debate over whether human free choice is preferable to human security, and whether human freedom compromises divine sovereignty. Since the story supplies no answer, we are left to wonder: Is this story an exercise in the dreadful predestination of a manipulative, even duplicitous and evil God? Is Eden a setup?

Yet the point in Eden was not to choose; the point was to reign. When the story is framed in terms of human power, it remains a 'shame narrative' Gen. In the first creation account God creates adam in his image and blesses them with rule over the earth, sky, and sea Gen. The second develops this as the making of a man, then a woman, made from the earth, endowed with the spirit of life, charged to tend the ground , And the man gave names to all the cattle and to the birds of the sky and to all the wild beasts The man and woman are powerful, not powerless.

God has set the world at their feet Psalm 8. In both this story's cultural context and its literary context following Gen. Why would God have vested human beings with such power? The text answers repeatedly: for purposes of cultivation, not oppression. They are set up — but to succeed. Why is the tree of knowledge there? It is not there just to tempt.

Perhaps the tree is not there to tempt at all. First, it is beautiful Gen. It is a monument to the unattainable wisdom and knowledge of its Creator. When things get tough, it is a reminder that. This is my Father's world, and to my listening ears All nature sings, and round me rings the music of the spheres. This is my Father's world: I rest me in the thought Of rocks and trees, of skies and seas; his hand the wonders wrought.

This is my Father's world, the birds their carols raise, The morning light, the lily white, declare their maker's praise. This is my Father's world: he shines in all that's fair; In the rustling grass I hear him pass; he speaks to me everywhere. This is my Father's world. O let me ne'er forget That though the wrong seems oft so strong, God is the ruler yet. This is my Father's world: why should my heart be sad?

The Lord is King; let the heavens ring! God reigns; let the earth be glad! Second, the commandment not to eat of it is good. A rule not to touch the stove doesn't just keep children from burning their fingers. It teaches children to respect parents.

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The limit is a gift. It allows humans to have a relationship with God characterized by faith rather than works or something else. Third, the tree's presence teaches humans that our authority still has limits. We rule the sea and ground and sky, but not the starry host Gen. Our knowledge still admits mystery. Without such a sign, the race will soon be trying to storm the heavens through its own efforts Gen. Sure, the tree's presence is a convenient opportunity to transgress the limits.

But there are already others. As we shall see, before the woman eats the forbidden fruit, she has already failed to rule the creation as God intended. What is the snake? The story does not tell us it is some fallen angel out to visit the fall upon God's new humanity that has already come upon the angelic realm. Those details are insertions from other extrabiblical narratives that have become so popular that most of us automatically read them into the story.

Try hard to keep Milton out of your head while you read Genesis , and a different interpretation re-emerges. This is no fearsome angelic power the woman is up against. It is not Satan. If it were, the 'prophecy' of that her seed would strike the head of its seed would imply the defeat of Satan's It is one of God's creatures, one of the beasts the people have already named.

It is not sui generis. Other beasts are shrewd too, though less so. Eve also understood this warning as she repeated it to Satan. But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die Genesis Did they actually die when they ate the forbidden fruit? The Bible says that they did not physically die the moment they ate the fruit but lived on many years afterward. Is this a contradiction?

The answer is, No. There are several ways in which to understand the sense in which Adam and Eve died. There is physical death when the body dies. A second type of death is spiritual death - a separation of the spirit from the body. A third type of death is eternal death - permanent separation of humanity from God. Death Was Spiritual Some interpreters contend that Adam and Eve did die when they ate the forbidden fruit, but their death was spiritual, not physical.

The main idea behind death is separation. The death that Adam and Eve experienced when they ate the forbidden fruit was immediate separation from God. Physical Death They also experienced physical death for their disobedient act. Though it was not immediate, it still was a result from their disobedience of God. The Lord promised: In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of dust you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you shall return Genesis The physical death was postponed due to God's grace but the spiritual death was immediate.

The Bible says that after they sinned God said: Therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken Genesis Begin To Die Others have interpreted the expression to mean that the death process began the moment they ate of the forbidden fruit. Though they did not immediately die physically, the death process began to take hold of their bodies, which as we know, eventually ended in their death. Scripture records that Adam did eventually die. Altogether, Adam lived years, and then he died Genesis Idiomatic Expression Another view sees that the phrase the day you eat of it as simply a Hebrew idiom meaning as surely as you eat of it.

Other biblical examples are provided to show what the phrase means in other contexts. For it shall be, on the day you go out and cross the Brook Kidron, know for certain you shall surely die; your blood shall be on your head 1 Kings Then Pharaoh said to him, Get away from me! Take heed to yourself and see my face no more! For in the day you see my face you shall die! Exodus As Certain As In both of these passages, the expression in the day means simply as certain as.

If we apply this to Genesis we do not need to explain that Adam and Eve experienced death that very same day they ate the forbidden fruit, but rather their death sentence was something for certain. Would Live Forever? This brings up another issue. Would Adam and Eve have lived forever if they had not sinned? Though the Scripture does not specifically tell us, the strong inference is yes. God gave them this perfect environment and promised they could eat of the tree of life. Death would only result if they disobeyed Him and ate the forbidden fruit.

World Overpopulated Some argue that this would not be possible because the world would soon become overpopulated with all the perfect people. This, of course, assumes that all of the descendants would not sin. Since this did not happen, it is fruitless to speculate on what could have happened. Summary Adam and Eve did not physically die the moment they ate the fruit but they both eventually did die. The phrase in the day that you eat of it can be understood in a number of ways without finding a contradiction in Scripture.

If they had not sinned, we assume they would have lived until someone else did sin. Adam first blamed the woman, it was her fault. He took none of the blame himself. He did not regard himself as being responsible for his own actions. Then he blamed God because God had given him the woman. In Adam's mind, God was at fault. To this day men and women keep blaming God for everything that goes wrong.

Did Adam and Eve Die When They Ate the Forbidden Fruit?

Adam's big fault was that he could not admit that he had sinned. Just like people today, they wiggle around with ingenious and self-serving answers to proclaim their self-righteousness. And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. The woman adopted typical defiant human behaviour. Do not blame me, blame the serpent. The serpent fooled me. This has however left a trauma in the feminine mind. Call a man a bull or a dog and he smiles happily.

A bull is a compliment. He must be a tough guy. Sailors often call themselves sea dogs. Call a woman a cow or a she dog and she is insulted. Way back in time an animal fooled the first woman, and women have never recovered from that traumatic experience. The serpent said to the woman,"Your eyes shall be opened". So God took away the eyelids of the snake so that the snake cannot close its eyes. The snake's eyes are covered by a thin membrane that protects the eyes.

But a snake looks spooky because it never blinks. It cannot be very comfortable for a snake to sleep when it cannot close its eyes. When the Americans broke all the treaties that they made with the Red Indians, the Red Indians said "White man speaks with a forked tongue".

The Story of Adam And Eve

So because the serpent mixed up truth and lies, God gave the snake a forked tongue. The story that came out of the mouth of the serpent sold the human race down the river of death. So God put poison under the tongue of the snake. Animals knew about multiplying by sex. The serpent could thus introduce the woman to the concept of sex which requires the male to lie on his belly on top of the woman. So God now makes the snake lie permanently on its belly as it crawls around.

Its mouth is easily and uncomfortably filled with dust. This has a deeper spiritual sense. Snakes do not eat natural dust. They swallow dust that enters their mouths but they eat things like frogs and mice. But the long body of a snake is symbolic of the pit of hell. Mankind is made from the dust. If we die unsaved then the snake of hell will swallow us. The snake of hell is the final end of the flesh and those who live by the flesh. But if we are born again of the Spirit, then the snake of hell cannot swallow us as it feeds only on dust, the flesh.

A prophecy. Satan was in the serpent in order to use the serpent to wreck God's plan. A woman does not have a seed. She has a womb to receive a seed. God had to give the woman a seed by creating a holy Seed within her womb. Because this Seed had no human father, it can be called the woman's seed since it came from no man. The belly button is caused by the umbilical cord that joined the developing baby to its mother. The mother in turn was connected to her mother, and so the connection goes all the way back to Eve. This cord symbolises the pipeline of God's permissive will, bringing forth life through sex inside marriage.

But this life of ours is trapped in the "pipeline of time" where we flow helplessly from birth to death. It is not a pipeline of eternal life. The cobra snake is most dangerous when partly upright. In this body of flesh we all do some good which make sinners think that they are saints.

But we also do evil and we have no way of erasing that evil. So the serpent was told to eat dust. Our flesh is made from the dust. This symbolises the fate of people born of a woman, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Humans live in the flesh and when they die, they get swallowed by the "serpent" whose snakelike body symbolises the pit of hell. The belly button is the mark of the beast in our bodies which takes our bodies to the grave because they came from sex.

This is the first death. If we disbelieve the Bible then we take the mark of the beast in our foreheads because we take unscriptural beliefs into our minds and our thinking. This influences our actions and is the mark of the beast on our hands. Then we go to the second death, the Lake of Fire. Only if we become born again can we escape the clutches of the "serpent". Saints know that they are sinners so they repent. By faith, the perfect Blood of Jesus then washes us from all our sins. Being born again of the Spirit of God gives us a new spirit body that will take us to Heaven when we die because the "serpent" has no permission to eat spirit.

At Calvary Jesus kicked the head of Satan. A blow to the head can break a blood vessel. The pool of blood grows until it touches the brain, then the creature dies. The Blood of Jesus grew over the church ages and at the end it will touch the brain, the cleverness of our scientific age, and then our Laodicean age will perish in the Tribulation which ends up at Armageddon. Jesus hurt His heel in that colossal conflict on the cross. Thus he could not walk and was not seen for a while. But His heel recovered and He rose triumphant on the third day. Since then He has walked through the two thousand years of church history.

God never said "because" to the woman. Why not?

She was so totally fooled that God could not have persuaded her that she was wrong. It was also legal for a wife to have sex with her husband, so as far as she was concerned she had done nothing wrong. In terms of the Big Picture , she knew nothing about the virgin birth. She never grasped that once her womb was used for sex, God had no use for her in terms of His plan. God would have to wait years until Mary obeyed Him. Worse still, she had taken advice from an animal. Animals live by polygamy. One male and many females.

So God decided that if the woman wanted to multiply like the animals did, then the women could live like animals in polygamy. Each woman would be one of many wives for a man. This was demeaning to the woman and gave them an inferior status to the men. Now comes a strange sentence. This has two implications. The woman is already pregnant and God is not happy with this pregnancy. She will bring forth children in sorrow. To this day childbirth remains a painful and difficult process.

No one knows how many women have died in childbirth during the years of human history. Pregnancy can be a very difficult time. God thus makes it plain that this is His permissive will - it is certainly not His perfect will. If sex was God's original plan for mankind to multiply, He could not punish the woman for being pregnant. If God intended her to have sex, why did having sex make her feel embarrassed about her nakedness so that she covered herself with fig leaves?

Animals breed by sex and are not embarrassed by their nakedness. Now for a strange statement. God is saying that He is going to allow her to have many more conceptions. If she only had one conception, the human race would end.

So God is punishing her by giving her many conceptions and painful child births. If this is a punishment, then this was not God's original plan for mankind. The woman was supposed to have one conception, the virgin born Son of God, Jesus. He would grow up to be an adult and then speak all His saints from the dust of the earth.

Just the right number to fill the earth. No extras to burn in hell. Now she has messed up that plan because she is no longer a virgin. Thus all the people are going to have to be born through sex. This is a strange punishment. A woman who loves her husband will have a natural desire towards him.

But sexual desire can attract her to many other men but she is not allowed to respond to that attraction. She may only love her husband. But thanks to the polygamy of animals, since she listened to an animal, she also has to live like animals in polygamy. So her one husband is allowed to choose many wives but she has to remain faithful only to him.

This is not a happy relationship for the woman. In Chapter 2 Adam was a spirit-man when God explained to him about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Thus sin entered when the roles were reversed and the woman was now telling the man what to believe. This was the first example of a woman preacher, and it brought death. That was Adam's big mistake - listening to his wife. He knew the truth, she did not.

We are not allowed to compromise truth just to keep our families happy. Fortunately God did not curse Adam, He cursed the ground that Adam came from. From now on the soil that had easily yielded an abundance of food to Adam would now reluctantly yield crops, which required a lot of hard work to produce. Back breaking toil would be the fate of millions as they wrestled their food from the soil. Then rats and mould would consume and spoil much of the stored grain after the harvest. Part of the world's population would always be hungry, and this would cause much sorrow.

Greedy profiteers would dump food into the oceans in order to keep the prices high. Farm land would stop producing food to eat, and use it for biofuel because that was more profitable. The poor who need food, the endless hungry refugees, would not be considered. Famine and starvation would establish communist control in Russia and China. God now makes life difficult for man. God took man from the dust of the earth and gave him an easy life in a magnificent human body. But we humans lack appreciation for the blessings that we have, and successful and wealthy people still seek out the forbidden fruits of sin to fill their lives, just like Adam did.

We depend upon the soil for our food. But it is hard work to raise these crops. Now the same soil will produce thorns and thistles. We cannot eat these and they make our lives uncomfortable. Our churches, where we go to find salvation and deeper truth, will also produce lies, politics, traditions, philosophy and errors.

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So truth and error will get so entangled in the churches that few individuals will be able to find truth any more. God will then have to cut the time short before error completely eliminates truth. God realized that sinful man does not need ease and luxury, as that will only make him worse. Hard work and obstacles that have to be overcome is a far more suitable environment for us humans. Man's face includes his forehead which symbolizes his intelligence and brain power. The surface of the earth is also called the face of the earth. God formed Adam from the dust of the earth.

Yet for all of mankind's intelligence, he cannot escape the simple cycle that he has to die and he will return to a grave in the dust of the earth, leaving everything behind. Each grave is a scar in the face of the earth that was not part of God's original plan. We are born with a navel, and are just like a navel orange which has no seed Scripture Life inside the fruit or baby. Born of sex in this scarred body we are doomed to die, and whatever we build up and accumulate on the face of the earth, with the sweat of our faces, we leave behind as we return to the face of the earth in a scar called a grave.

It is an empty cycle. The body will only go down six feet but our souls will be dragged down into the pit of hell. We need a Saviour.

Talk:Garden of Eden/Archive 1

One Who suffered and can show us the scars on His Body as evidence of His atonement for our sin. A woman represents the church. The church is called the bride of Jesus Christ. The woman only took on her name after she had fallen into sin. Churches only take on their denominational names like Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal etc.

Now that Adam and Eve had blood in their bodies they no longer were covered with a holy veil of innocence. In a human being, free will and sexual impulses were a dangerous combination.